Schweiz - Deutsche Staaten

Ralph,
Danke.
I will probably not worry too much about the Thurn & Taxis exception until I have more items that require that knowledge. For now, I have my hands full trying to figure out letter mail 1850-1875 in Western Europe at the basic to intermediate levels.

Recently published an article with the Postal History Society (US) on a series of letters to Amsterdam from various parts of Europe. Working on a second article looking at Swiss/French mail exchange. So, that is where the detail effort is going right now. Nothing groundbreaking, I am sure. But, basic knowledge of the workings of foreign mail outside of US interactions needs more exposure in the US, so I am hoping to provide some of that.
The problem is that I very much want to get things exactly correct, but I know I have many gaps in knowledge.

Rob

Hello Rob

very nice website - congrats to your article. Swiss - TT payments will be discussed when you feed me with letters.

Liebe Freunde,

von einem ganz lieben Sammlerfreund gerade diesen Scan bekommen - da dürfte der Weltbestand eher eine Handvoll Briefe darstellen. Für den, der alles hat ...

Hallo Ralph,

zwar schon im Parallelforum geschrieben, aber kann es gar nicht oft genug sagen: Toller Brief, wenn der mal frei wird...

Dann möchte ich euch auch gerne eine neue Errungenschaft meiner kleinen Sammlung (im Verhältnis zum Besitzer des vorangegangenen Briefes) zeigen.

Aufgegeben wurde der Brief am 22.01.1864 in Basel und adressiert wurde dieser nach Säckingen im Grenzrayon. Die Grenzrayon-Taxe betrug "3 Kr. (sowohl frankiert als auch unfrankiert), was 10 Rappen entsprach, welche beim Empfänger eingezogen und der Schweiz gutgeschrieben wurden. Alles weitere ergibt sich aus dem ausführlichen Attest von Urs Hermann. M.E. ist ein Attest dann gut, wenn man nichts mehr zu dem vom Prüfer Geschriebenen ergänzen kann, was hier der Fall ist. Hermann ist meiner Meinung nach sowieso einer der kompetentesten Prüfer, sowohl postgeschichtlich als auch philatelistisch.

Briefe im Grenzrayon sind schon nicht häufig wie wir wissen (mal von der Spengelin-Korrespondenz abgesehen), unfrankierte Briefe im Grenzrayon sind noch zwei Stufen seltener, weswegen ich mich über meine neue Errungenschaft sehr freue.

Liebe Grüße,

Kevin

Hallo Kevin,

es sind diese unscheinbaren Briefe, die kaum einer hat, kaum einer kennt, aber deren Besitz den Unterschied macht zwischen Katalogsammler und Kenner. Wohl dem, der in solch jungen Jahren schon das eine hinter sich gelassen hat, um in das andere Stadium einzutreten.

Zum vorherigen Brief: Da müsstest du ihn mal fragen - war ein Tauscherfolg, aber ich fürchte, dass er nicht nur einen Satz Posthornmarken dafür gegeben hat.

Hello collector friends,

Here is an 1861 letter from Basel to Wurttemberg. Two 15 rappen Strubels pay the 30 rp rate. One rayon in Switzerland and two rayons in DOPV.

Would it be correct to say, based on the markings shown here, that this must have gone via internal Swiss rail to Constanz and entered Wurttemberg after crossing the lake to Friedrichschafen?

In post #160, I showed an item that went via the Baden railway just north of the Swiss border from Basel, so a Baden marking indicating the 6 kreuzer was passed to Baden. The only additional markings on this one is a Wurttemberg Bahnpost marking and the receiver at Cannstatt. That is why I think Wurttemberg gets the 6 kreuzer.

Is my logic correct here?

Also, it looks to me like this was sent to a smaller town near Cannstatt (Kannstadt). Can someone help me figure out where? Or am I incorrect?

Best,

Rob

Hello Rob

your letter was sent to Romanshorn (CH) and from there via Lake Constance to Friedrichshafen, where the postpacket was opened and the letter was stemped on the reverse side. Then by train via Ulm and Stuttgart to Fellbach.

Ah! Fellbach!

Danke Ralph!

Now I need to find something that went North through Baden without going to Constanz!

Hello Rob

from Oct. 15th 1852 until around 1855 you can find letters from Basel to Wurttemberg via Bade (backside Baden Bahnpost) - but later the Swiss used to send their letters to Wurttemberg via Friedrichshafen, as the railway lines were better connected then.

Hello collector friends,

Here is a visual of what I think I understand regarding the routes I have been discussing above. The map is an 1861 German rail map.

A person could mail a letter to Wurttemberg at the Baden railway station in Basel and it would be taken by the Baden railway (shown in green) for a while before it would re-enter Switzerland. A later line would go to Schaffhausen for re-entry to Switzerland. When this happened Baden would open the mailbag and receive the 6 kreuzer credit.

The more recent item I posted took the route highlighted in red, staying on Swiss railways and not entering German territory until it crossed at Lake Costanze. So, Wurttemberg would get the 6 kreuzer weiterfranco.

Ralph, if you see something incorrect here, let me know. Thank you for your help.

Rob

Hello Rob

looks good to me.

Hello Rob

Well, your letter went from Basel via Olten, Aarau, Baden CH, Zürich, Winterthur, Weinfelden to Romanshorn and there across the lake to Friedrichshafen.

Stamps 2x 24 B4

30 centimes for a letter up to 15 grams, letter from the 1st Swiss Rayon to the 2nd DÖPV

Hello collector friends,

This week on my postal history blog, I featured the mail from Switzerland to DOPV. It is at this location if you would like to read it.

Of course, if you find I have made a mistake, please feel free to correct me and I will make the appropriate changes.

Have a good week everyone!

Rob

Hello Rob,

really nice. But I don't know the regulations from Swizerland to DÖPV.

Dieter

Hello Rob

excellent job - very good background work.

Congrats to your article and your website.

Ralph & Dieter,

I am pleased that you both think the article is good. It is because of the kind people here and the resources on DASV site that I have learned enough to write about it.

Have a good day everyone.

Rob

The prior week's post featured Thurn & Taxis - if you wish to read that one.

Best,

Rob

Hello Rob

thanks for your very kind words!

To the letter of Thurn und Taxis: 7 Kreuzer were 2 Silbergroschen, not 2 Dutch cents (10 Dutch Cents were 2 Silbergroschen). TT and Prussia wrote 2 Sgr. for the further fee for the Netherlands.

Always very interesting, how you connect handwritings, weights, postal fees, handstamps and railway routes perfectly to write an excellent article of the very difficult postal history of the middle of Europe. Great job!