You are not logged in.

Aabenraaer

Experte

  • "Aabenraaer" started this thread

Posts: 8

Location: Odense

Occupation: IT Consultant

  • Send private message

1

Friday, April 12th 2019, 10:58am

Roststempeln (Oprørsstempler) on DK skilling issues

Hi all

I recently got the attached on auction. Its a 4 skilling 1858-issue, with Roststempel 40. The Bruun-Rasmussen auctioneers believe it to be genuine and I tend to agree with them. However, there is no expert certificate with the stamp.

In this connection I have two questions, which I would like your opinion on:
Given it is genuine, I do not recall I have seen such a late usage of Roststempeln on Danish skilling stamps - they normally appear on 4 RBS and 4 skilling 1854. Neither ARGE, AFA Special or DAKA lists Roststempeln on the 1858-issues, so I am wondering if any of you would have knowledge of such ?

The Roststempeln were allowed to be used on DK stamps from July 1st 1853, but I have never seen an end/decommission date. Given the seemingly "unstructured management history" of the Roststempeln, I would not be surprised if there were no clear rules about the end date of usage - but have any of you seen an end date or the latest known usage ?

Cheers
Ole
Aabenraaer has attached the following image:
  • Rost40.jpg

nordlicht

Experte

Posts: 666

Location: Holstein

  • Send private message

2

Friday, April 12th 2019, 5:36pm

Hi Ole,

Welcome.

I think as well that this Roststempel is genuine.

There are other examples on the DK 1858-issue. I have never seen an end date but the latest usage is at least 1862.
In any case your stamp is very rare.

Kind regards,
nordlicht

Aabenraaer

Experte

  • "Aabenraaer" started this thread

Posts: 8

Location: Odense

Occupation: IT Consultant

  • Send private message

3

Friday, April 12th 2019, 8:13pm

Hi Nordlicht

While I was looking into the matter, I read some sources that indicated that Roststempeln must exist on the 1858-issue, but I'm glad you can confirm this. I was not aware they were known used as late as 1862. Very interesting.

Though not a Danish stamp, I notice that ARGE lists SH#7 from 1864 to exist with Roststempel 33 (Hohenwestede / Remmels). That is, however, most likely an exceedingly rare case.

Thanks a lot for the info and swift answer!

Cheers
Ole

Erdinger

Experte

Posts: 1,050

Location: Erding

Occupation: Producer (Books)

  • Send private message

4

Friday, April 12th 2019, 10:52pm

Hi Ole,

thank you for introducing me to the term "oprørsstempler". I can honestly say that I had never heard of it before. But then, history always has two sides. While the big countries like England or France get their fair share of recognition in that respect (and have the power to make themselves heard), our smaller neighbouring countries usually do not get the same attention. For us Germans, the S-H story is a comparatively small hurdle on the path of Germany becoming a nation. For Denmark, it must have felt like an amputation that left a deep scar.

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Best regards,
Dietmar
Achter Kontich wonen er ook mensen!

Aabenraaer

Experte

  • "Aabenraaer" started this thread

Posts: 8

Location: Odense

Occupation: IT Consultant

  • Send private message

5

Saturday, April 13th 2019, 11:09am

Hi Dietmar

Thanks for your welcome greeting and post.

You are absolutely right about the scars, which are a large part of Danish history. Especially the loss of basically everything between Hamburg and Kolding in 1864 was devastating to Denmark.
After the referendum and following Unification with Sønderjylland in 1920 ("Genforeningen" - 100 year anniversary next year!) - and particularly immediately after World War 2 - there was some bitterness among the supporters of the danish minority on the German side of the border: They had hoped the negotiations of the border line could be re-opened. I think though, that this bitterness have largely died along with my grandparent's generation.


About the Roststempeln, I can add that the Danish term for this cancellation type, "Oprør", (=rebellion, insurgency) refers to the Holsteiners revolting against the Danes in 1848-50. The rebellions issued their own stamps (Postschillinge) and manufactured these brass Roststempeln to cancel them. After the revolt ended, I guess the cancellors were put in the drawers, until the Danish post administration decided they could be used in emergency situations, from 1853 - for instance when the normal cancellor was missing or malfunctioning at the post office.

Cheers
Ole

hasselbert

Experte

Posts: 1,111

Location: Frankfurt am Main

  • Send private message

6

Saturday, April 13th 2019, 8:35pm

Hallo zusammen,

Ich finde eure Beiträge nicht nur sehr interessant, sondern auch sehr lehrreich.
Leider kann ich nichts Erhellendes hierzu beitragen, aber ich lese sehr gerne mit.

Liebe Grüße derzeit immer noch auf Sylt, direkt an der dänischen Grenze
Heribert

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "hasselbert" (Apr 15th 2019, 11:39am)


Aabenraaer

Experte

  • "Aabenraaer" started this thread

Posts: 8

Location: Odense

Occupation: IT Consultant

  • Send private message

7

Sunday, April 14th 2019, 7:32pm

Hallo Heribert - Viele Grüße nach wunderschöne Sylt!


To my knowledge the history of the Roststempeln can be summarized like this:

1st Period: Intended to cancel Postschillinge (15.11.1850 - 31.8.1851)
- There were originally created 42 different numeral cancellors. Given the general rarity of genuinely cancelled Postschillinge, I am not certain whether there still exist examples of all 42 numerals.
- After the end date, all 42 cancellors were supposed to be returned to the postal administration, but its is said, that only four were returned.

2nd Period: Emergency cancellations on Danish stamps (1.8.1853 - 1862 or later)
- The numerals 3, 12, 18, 19, 34, 39 and 40 are known to exist on Danish stamps. Most commonly on "Fire RBS" and 4 skilling 1854. But as this thread demonstrates, also on the 1858-issue.
- To my knowledge are 19 and 39 rare, while the rest are very rare.

3rd Period: Usage in S-H
- According to ARGE is numeral 33 known to exist on SH#7 (1,25 Schilling 1864)

Cheers
Ole

nordlicht

Experte

Posts: 666

Location: Holstein

  • Send private message

8

Monday, April 15th 2019, 10:40am

Moin,

1st Period: Intended to cancel Postschillinge (15.11.1850 - 31.8.1851)

The end date is known from some literature but it is not correct. The danish authorities stopped selling the Postschillinge but tolerated using them. So Postschillinge were used and cancelled with Roststempel until the beginning of 1852 when Denmark took over the postal administration in Holstein.

I am not certain whether there still exist examples of all 42 numerals
There is no evidence of all 42 Roststempel, e.g. No. 8 (Krempe) is not known and No. 42 (Schwartau) may be never exist.
Two million Postsschillinge were produced but only about 12000 were used. Some smaller cities did not sell any Postschilling (e.g. Krempe) so it is not surprising that some Roststempel have not been seen yet.

Roststempel is a quite interesting research topic but unfortunately not that cheap ...

Mange hilsener
nordlicht

Aabenraaer

Experte

  • "Aabenraaer" started this thread

Posts: 8

Location: Odense

Occupation: IT Consultant

  • Send private message

9

Monday, April 15th 2019, 4:00pm

Hi Nordlicht,

Thanks for the updates and precisions. The literature I have available in this field is sparse and somewhat inaccurate, so I appreciate your insights!

I am still searching for a flawless affordable used copy of each of the Postschillinge (I may need to skip the "affordable"-criteria:-). It will, however, require a miracle in my household economy, before I start a collection of numerals on Postschillinge..

Cheers
Ole

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Aabenraaer" (Apr 15th 2019, 5:46pm)